Alternate History Discussion

[Rob]

Cultivate!

[Omen]

Stargate:

Alternate: Canaanite Goddess Asherah was a human with a g'uald symbiote who through a mutation had dominance over her symbiote rather then the other way around.  She used this secret ability to help her own people and pretend to be a g'uald queen, she would later escape on a cargo vessel taking individuals with her that would become the 'lost tribe' myth associated with Judaic Lore.  She was often represented by a colorful pole representing the female form or fertility to some extent.  Her betrayal leads to the other G'uald lords on earth to destroying any reference to her worship, hence the biblical reference.

Historical: Asherah was goddess considered the wife of the gods and historically had a connection to various canaanite/semitic deities including yawheh ( biblical god ), el, baal, and many others.  There is also a biblical reference ( 2 Kings 18:4 ),"removed the high places, and broke the pillars, and cut down the Asherah" ( along with many others, but this one is important ).  The high places were often 'temples' and Asherah were actual poles representative of the goddess asherah, which were ( typical ) destroyed for not complying with the ruling theocracy or cultural belief spreading at the time.  The lost tribes of israel mythology includes various traditional accounts that lead in so many directions, that it can be represent or be the basis of anything.

[Angry_Face]

WW1+Magic (But not campy, More Shamanism than Wizard spell slinging, and maybe some old world Fey stuff)   

[Artemis]

Just going to throw this out, What if Neandertal didn't actually become extinct. The majority of advancements for humanity would be tied into the middle east/ africa while the Neandertal society would have developed in parallel in Europe. You could do this with other near-human species that didn't make the grade.

[Rob]

Just going to throw this out, What if Neandertal didn't actually become extinct. The majority of advancements for humanity would be tied into the middle east/ africa while the Neandertal society would have developed in parallel in Europe. You could do this with other near-human species that didn't make the grade.

That is interesting... something that could be used in any genre we choose to use too.

[Artemis]

Idea came to me from watching a special on Neandertals on the Discovery Channel. Said hmmm... that could make for an interesting bit of what-iffery, course I didn't do anything with it till now just had the idea floating in the filthy morass I call my head. Stating Neandertal wouldn't be too difficult either, they had comporable brain mass (perhaps even smarter than us the show I was watching theorized the major advantage that allowed us to drive them into extinction was the invention of language, but if they had developed a language as well things would have turned out quite differently) they were stronger, but less mobile. Easily reflected with an increase in Strength and a Decrease in Dex and a lower speed.

This of course brings up the question of which system you're going to use for the world. As much as I like the World of Darkness system, I'm affraid to not alienate too many listeners you'll have to stick with D20 (sorry Rob but I just don't see an alternative). Of course you could try to make this an episode where you discuss the different systems but I fear that episode would be too short.

[BurnYU]

I think I would prefer an alternate reality teamed game, theirs an idea I have bin sort of spinning about noting to concrete just something I thought up after watching a film.

How about some time in 1940+ the Germans come across an alien space ship inside some deep mines it had bin sitting their from the time that the place had still bin a swamp. Now there are no aliens but there is an AI all advanced and functional but dormant

The idea is to make the AI get tricked by the Germans because the AI it self is not evil and would never stand for these kinds of things. Still prty much historical at this point. It helps the Germans out after some coxing and what not but history goes on unchanged when finally around the end of the war the AI manages to learn some truths but the alien tech still has difficulties understanding humans maybe its damaged and searching for information. In those days there are no real computers so it cant get any.

But once it understands what had happened to a point it starts sabotaging the Germans holding them back and implanting flaws in plans. The Allies win and like many other objects the computer gets shipped off and labeled but because its not a rocket and because nobody is left alive who knows what it is its basically marked as unknown.

Now as more and more radio transmissions and better tech starts popping up the AI starts becoming aware of them at around the cold war. Ware it decides that humanity will not survive now there are options but my main idea was to make the AI not be evil or at least not evil evil although it might do morally evil acts

At the height of the Cuba crisis it steps in basically kidnapping all technology and cutting it off from humans, taking the possibility away from them of just nuking each other. But it miscalculates and in the crisis of the time and the hysteria all hell brakes loose the basically mostly non computerized elements of the army and navy strike with mostly non atomic weapons so you get a big mostly conventional war going, and then suddenly the AI gets together enough tech to start producing some truly “Sci Fi” stuff.

I have bin toying around with the idea of the workers in plants not even knowing the orders aren’t coming from the government. So now some truly alien tech starts taking over America from the inside as well as Russia again in both places civilian workers didn’t ask to many questions when orders came from the army.

The AI wants to make it peaceful but for that it needs to Pacify the world now I would assume it could do that rather effectively in the non to military heavy inner regions with the armies battling it out at point Xes. Now the idea is that at some point the two armies get this and a sort of quasy alliance is reached, but the info is mangled and what comes together in combination of Russian and US Intel is that some alien presences has taken over huge peaces of each country and is apparently controlling the population their. The population is actually blissfully unaware TV and Radio are now totally controlled.

Now I sort of only have it to this point, basically the new alliance tries to re capture the world, the AI defends it self and what it precives as its people mostly wimen and children at this point probably who se the invading army as enemy forces. Now I dono witch side the PCs would be on I guess the rest really depends
---

The idea is one side doesn’t really have military but has a lot of High tech stuff maybe robots and things but a high female child population some old people and all the tech is basically still 1980ish material so except for the AIs systems the other stuff is still that level now he did things to it and added a lot of his own knowledge but thy probably aren’t invulnerable although per unit its still a lot more powerful then any Soviet/US tank of the day

The United US/Russians on the other hand have a but load of weapons but limited resources then need to do this now and fast before their whole homeless army basically brakes down around them they need bases and they need it fast.

[Rob]

This of course brings up the question of which system you're going to use for the world. As much as I like the World of Darkness system, I'm affraid to not alienate too many listeners you'll have to stick with D20 (sorry Rob but I just don't see an alternative). Of course you could try to make this an episode where you discuss the different systems but I fear that episode would be too short.

We plan on having a discussion about what system to use once we decide the genre. This might not be a WHOLE show, but at least part of a show. There is also a good chance we might develop this as systemless, easily convertible to any system you choose. Maybe provide a rule here or there for a few systems as examples.

[Omen]

I'm fond of the idea of Romans/Greeks developing industrial capacity as they bring their various technological achievements together in every increasing new ways.  Both were capable of and had devices that we consistently find today to be more advanced then we originally thought, everything from complex weaponry, elaborate public time pieces and astronomical devices, clockwork like decorations and toys, and not to mention some of the temple 'tricks' meant to awe worshippers at the various religious centers.

Take the innovation and simply take a step foward, include the growing theocractic dominance as christians were 'assimilated' into the empire.  You end up with a ruling inquisitorial theocracy in a center of world rule, with the most technologically advanced civilization on the planet.

Mecha Spartan!  I choose you!

[hellibrarian]

Just going to throw this out, What if Neandertal didn't actually become extinct. The majority of advancements for humanity would be tied into the middle east/ africa while the Neandertal society would have developed in parallel in Europe. You could do this with other near-human species that didn't make the grade.

Robert J. Sawyer wrote a three book series called the Neanderthal Paralax that is very close to your idea.  There are some experiments going on on our earth and a parallel earth where the dominant species are Neanderthal.  A Neanderthal scientist is thrust into our reality.  There is a lot of exploration of the cultural differences between the species.  The whole series is and excellent read.  Hominids in the first in the serieshttp://www.amazon.com/Hominids-Neanderthal-Parallax-Robert-Sawyer/dp/0765345005/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221150813&sr=8-1

[Jeremy]

Interesting takes on Alternate History can be found in many books by Harry Turtledove

Take a point and history and change it, then fast forward it to current day.

Examples:
the South won the war and the USA is split: During WW 2  the north Sides with the Allies and the South side with Germany

1960: middle of the cold war; Atlantis returns from a failed experiment with a particle accelerator. They once dominated the world and wish to do so again.

[mhacdebhandia]

Alternate history doesn't have to be dramatic, either. You could radically change the present day by changing smaller elements of the past. I remember a GURPS supplement, Alternate Earths, which mentioned an alternate history called "Campbell" - John W. Campbell, legendary science fiction editor and publisher, was killed in a car accident as a young man. Subsequently, with his enthusiasm for publishing the science fiction of greats like Asimov missing from the publishing scene, fewer young men were inspired to become scientists and engineers, retarding scientific progress in the United States. Maybe the U.S.A. still hasn't reached the moon by the year 2000; maybe an equivalent of the European Union has risen to prominence on the back of western European ingenuity, and the whole political scope of the world is different.

That could be just one twist of many, of course. Like, then aliens invade!

In another direction, imagine if the civil rights movement in the U.S. was stalled, and growing tensions between different groups of people went unalleviated by the historical changes that happened in the Sixties in our world; maybe the "race war" expected by people like Charles Manson really did happen, and led to some sort of quasi-fascist American government as U.S. society destabilised and power-hungry elements took control.

[Citizen Joe]

You could have an alternate history where everything comes out as it has, but the causes were different.  Or the people were not as they appear.  So, there might be a great conspiracy out there to bring about a certain event.  This even requires a lot of set up, so a secret organization has to arrange these events through all time to bring about their foretold prophecy.  On the face, nothing has changed, but when you get into the cause effect, history is not as it was reported.

This can also be done as a time travel game where characters go back in time to make sure events unfold as they are supposed to.

[gtroc]

Alien spaceship crash lands in the middle of the Renaissance, or the Industrial revolution(depending on how widespread, or early in time you want the divergence.

also during world war two when the Nazis were sure of there defeat they sent a submarine full of their top secret designs and best scientists to japan. the Japanese use this research to either prolong the war, or even win.


world war one the Zimmerman letter is readily accepted by Mexico, and the Mexican American war reignites during the worst fighting in Europe, thus keeping America occupied on two fronts.

[runester]

I just wanted to throw this out there as a possible inspiration ...

• Godlike - WWII with supers, done gritty
• Colonial Gothic - American Revolution with supernatural horrors